Testimony of Stevan Kostić

During the first two decades of our century, Holocaust research, genocide studies, and education in Serbia were marked by the transition toward the "time after the witness", into which we were ushered, not by the anticipated "time of archives", but through the continuity of the "time of the interpretation", as the method of projection of state narrative. This transition began in the pre-digital age, in the time of narrative control that was realized through two parts of the same mechanism - archives with privileged, controlled access, and historians of state institutions. When, back in 1986, the historian of the Historical Archive of the City of Belgrade Milena Radojčić and her assistant Milan Koljanin collected the testimonies of the survivors of the Nazi concentration camp at Sajmište (Belgrade Fair). One of the witnesses, Stevan Kostić, who was seventeen at the time of his incarceration said that during the winter and spring of 1941-1942, he was in charge of food distribution and hygiene at the pavilion where he and other Roma were kept. He described the mass grave and the quicklime pit. The historians did not ask any additional questions, nor did they ask him to show them the location of the pit. Instead, they changed the direction of the questioning and did not return to the subject of the mass grave. In Dr. Koljanin's book about the camp at Sajmište, the testimony of Stevan Kostic, as well as the testimony of the Dekić brothers, then ten, and thirteen-year-old boys, who also mention the events on the Sava embankment, are not quoted but rather cited as references to various events and locations sixteen times. The testimony of Stevan Kostić was mentioned only as an indication with an archival signature:

“...However, there are testimonies that several Roma were dying daily, that were buried in a large quicklime pit by the Sava riverbank , outside the camp wire, where the bodies were covered with carbol.”

- footnote 271 IAB ZRP MG (nr) testimony of Stevan Kostić.

From the book, the readers cannot learn that the witness described himself as healthy, conscious, relatively well-fed with responsibilities in the operation of the camp and that removing the deceased and taking the bodies to the limestone was part of his job, nor that he knew the location of the mass grave.

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Milena Radojčić - Were you heated like that in the pavilion with the Jews?

Kostić Stevan - I didn’t even spend the night with the Jews; already during the day, I arranged everything and was transferred to pavilion No. II.

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Milan Koljanin - when was that?

Kostic Stevan - that was in January.

When I arrived, my mother and sisters were not just full of lice; there wasn't a piece of fabric that was without lice. We at the Autokomanda didn't have lice; there was steaming for lice. When I got there, the camp chief, a Jew, appointed me to be the hygiene supervisor and to keep an eye on the kitchen, to control what was being prepared, and to maintain hygiene in Pavilion No. II, the Gypsy pavilion. We had a nurse in our pavilion, a Jewish woman named Matilda. I didn't sleep with my mother at all; instead, I slept on a table at the clinic, which had a special section for the clinic, with boxes, and there were also some storage areas. For us, the storage was in the same pavilion; they brought food there, and I prepared it. They brought food from the central kitchen to that section; they would line up, receive a piece of cornbread, and food was distributed from large buckets. I shared the food distribution with another guy named Mija, who was from Resnik. I replaced him because he was sick; I was healthier, constantly moving around. I had to determine who would work, those who were healthier, who could get up; there were stroke victims, immobile people, wetting themselves, and we had to maintain hygiene. This Jewish nurse was with me, and I appointed orderlies from those who were mobile. There was one young man and some stronger women; I ordered that if someone died, they should be wrapped in a blanket, taken out to the lime pit, and thrown in. The lime pit was toward Sava, outside the fence, there was a gate so we wouldn't have to go around; there was no guard there, and we carried the dead out through that gate and threw them into the lime pit. No one was near that lime pit. One of the prisoners was responsible for covering the dead with lime; the lime pit was enormous.

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During the day, at night, the children die, women by 5-6, sometimes one, two, sometimes ten. In the morning you hear them wailing, a family member, then they report it, the sister comes, confirms the death and then it is carried away.

Milena Radojčić - did the camp commander, the German, come to visit your pavilion?

Six years after the interview, the publication of a short, inadequate description of the testimony and his signature technically fulfilled the basic task of a historian - to transmit and publish documents and testimonies relevant to the history of the place and time he deals with. However, in the case of the camp at Sajmište and Roma testimonies, their content and essence were not conveyed to the public. Within their narrow view of the scope of their work, historians did not pass the information about possible locations of mass burials onto other institutions either. Neither in 1986, when it was still possible to bring witnesses to the location, nor later, when unregulated, feral, and then state construction irrevocably changed the structure of Sajmište. In contrast to the demolition of the German pavilion in 2023, where the key testimony was a secondary and post-war one, however reliably transmitted, the testimonies about the quicklime pit on the Sava riverbank were mentioned by a signature in the book about the camp, and thus, are part of its official history. In addition, in the fall of 2024, Dr. Koljanin, the last living participant in Stevan Kostić's interview and the chief historian of the "Memorial Center Staro Sajmište ", did not provide timely information about the testimonies mentioned in his book to the relevant institutions of the Republic and the city of Belgrade before they removed a two-meter thick layer of soil from the embankment, including from the wider area of the locations described in the testimonies, for the works on replacing the Sava bridge. The information was also not shared by the historical and memorial institutions of the state "Memorial Center Staro Sajmište", its historical and social science institutes, the University Department of History, or the "umbrella" institution, the "Museum of Genocide Victims".

Until the soil was removed, it was possible to speculate about the condition of the location on the Sava, as well as others, both at Sajmište and around Belgrade. It is plausible that the location was included in the occupiers' graves burning action in the winter and spring of 1944, when the ashes from Jajinci and Rakovica were dumped near the lower point of Ada, or that it was somehow destroyed during the post-war works on the expansion of the embankment. In both cases, at least some testimonies would probably remain. Even the regular flooding of the river generally does not carry away what was buried deep enough. The only thing we know for sure today is that the witnesses, the pensioners taking stock of their lives, were the ones for whom it was important to convey to us that these sites still exist and what took place there. Today, after the silence of historians and institutions, as well as the state's decision to excavate the sites without archeological research, we cannot confront the issues of protecting the sites of mass crimes independently of the issue of the state of historiography and the political and economic profile of historical-memorial institutions in Serbia.

The first question is about the trust in the ethics of historians in their selection of sources between the factual and the interpretive plane that forms the context of the narrative presentation. Where, or better, when, in this case, does the interpretive distancing of the historian from the witness begin? Can it already be seen in the preparation of scientific work? Isn't it already in the space left for secondary sources, the selection of testimonies, and their reduction to the role of indicators - supplementary, curt references, or just archival signatures, without citations as the space for the speech of the subject? The appropriation of the narrator's position is characteristic of the Serbian historiography of the Second World War written since the period of the nationalist rise and the wars of the 1990s. This leads us to a further series of questions: Who is the subject in the interpretive historiography of the period of nationalism? The victim, the witness, the historian himself, or his employer, as in this case - the state? Is the witness, especially when he is no longer alive still a political subject? Is such a subject allowed to speak, does it have hers/his autonomous political voice, and who is qualified to permit it to be heard, and at what volume? What is the role of testimony in the era of cooperation between some historians and the state in the removal of physical evidence from the very locations of the mass crimes that the witnesses were speaking about? Is the location of the crime also part of the "body of evidence" and is every building, tree, and archaeological layer also an integral, physical part of the evidence? Therefore, is the destruction of the crime scene and the prevention of archaeological research an integral and logical phase of denial of genocide that follows the rehabilitation of criminals and the neglect of witnesses and their words? Are "cultural heritage" and "culture of memory" adequate definitions for what is still an active field of projection of political and economic interest in Serbia?

The political positions of the nationalist governments, such as the fight against the International Tribunal for War Crimes and the institutional denial of genocide in the 1990s were projected onto the Second World War and institutionalized by the passing of a series of laws on public memory: On the rehabilitation of war criminals of the Second World War, on the restitution of property, on the "removal of the consequences" of the Holocaust, as well as the law on the establishment of the "Memorial Center Staro Sajmište". These laws have a negative impact on education, victims' rights, national and religious minorities, and the reduction of the protection status of the sites of suffering. The content and the selective application of these laws still provide a framework for Serbian historiography as the producer of a unified "national narrative" in education and memorialization. They are also the reason for the continued resistance of citizens, the political and professional public, in their fight against revisionism, and for transnational and transitional justice and education based on science and facts.

We hope that these questions and topics will be among those that will be asked by today's and new generations of historians as part of the necessary revision of the historiography of the nationalist period. In our view, it is necessary to re-evaluate and protect historical sources - the testimonies, archives, and the locations of mass crimes in Serbia. We hope that the generations for whom testimonies will not be divided by nationality and usability in the construction of political narratives will be the ones who will have empathy for the victims, basic trust for witnesses, and an awareness that crime scenes must be investigated using all available scientific methods to establish not just the scientific basis, but, through education, also a social consensus that history happens once and cannot be changed retroactively. Today, when we are facing the consequences of the demolition at Staro Sajmište, the question arises as to whether future generations of historians, archaeologists, sociologists, architects, and artists will be able to go back at least those four decades and finally pose, if not to the witnesses, then to themselves, a simple, but in essence, a generational question: "What kind of history do we have, and how was it formed?" We hope that with their answer, they will change the course of the current history of the sites of mass crimes and show that from these very places, a better, more humane society can be built in Serbia.

4807/MG-913

MEMORY

KOSTIĆ STEVAN, A RETIREE FROM BELGRADE, ĆUSTENDILSKA STREET 70, ĆALIJE, KARABURMA, REGARDING HIS STAY IN CAMPS AT AUTOKOMANDA, SAJMIŠTE, AND JAJINCI, GIVEN TO THE HISTORICAL ARCHIVE OF BELGRADE ON JUNE 25, 1986. MEMORY PREPARED AND RECORDED BY MILENA RADOJČIĆ. MILAN KOLJANIN ATTENDED THE RECORDING.

I was born in Mirijevo on August 1, 1925, to mother Jula and father Živko. They were farmers, owning about 10 acres of land. There were six of us children, and we lived off daily wages since we had very little land. I am the fourth child. My oldest brother was taken away when they deported the others, and he was in the group that was shot. We still do not have accurate information on where he was shot; we know he was shot in the village of Jabuka, and a memorial was erected for him there.

In Mirijevo, I completed 4 grades of elementary school as a child. After the war, I attended a course; first, I was a tram driver, and after 2-3 years, I took the exam for a category III driver’s license, and then I drove trolleybuses and buses in the City Transport. In 1951, I went to "Transport" and worked there for 8 years. When I passed for category II, I then had the right to drive a trolleybus, and after 3 years, I took the exam for category I and then drove a bus. I completed my working career in City Transport.

Milena Radojčić - how did your first arrest come about?

Kostić Stevan - it was heard that there was dangerous for Gypsies and Jews; everyone had to wear armbands, they were not allowed to move around the city, we had no right to ride on trams, or to appear at public gatherings; we were deprived of everything, we were marked. We received armbands; I did not because I was still a child, a

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young man staying with a farmer, taking care of the livestock, so I was completely isolated, I slept at their place. These farmers were also from Mirijevo, and they are still alive today. One morning, the Ljotić's guards came, they blocked Mala, I don’t remember the date, in 1941, in June or July, I remember there was some fair in Grocka. My brother was buying livestock, kept it for a while, and then sold it; that was his business. I know he bought livestock at the fair, and after 5-6 days it remained with him, and I can orient myself by that because after the fair in Grocka, this happened. The gendarmes came and blocked only the Mala neighborhood and took all the men up to 16 years old; at that time, my uncle's son was taken away, he was my age, he was found at home and they took him away. If I had been at home, they would have taken me too, but I was with the farmers, I was staying there, I was isolated. In the morning, I would have breakfast, milk the sheep, and spend the whole day in the field grazing; in the evening, I would return home, and that went on for years. When I came back to the landlord in the evening, the landlady started crying and said, "Oh Stevo, they took your brother, and not just your brother but all our Gypsies, and they took them to Kahan and the park." The park was at the end of the Boulevard, the second to last stop of the number six tram, there was a big park there. In the meantime, Uncle Žika... actually, my brother had also escaped; there were several of them who fled when they heard that the Ljotić's forces were coming because Uncle Žika had acquaintances in the municipality, and he told him in the evening, "Žika, the gendarmes will come, they will block and take you away to forced labor," and we knew they would be sent to a camp. This Uncle Žika had 4-5 sons and told them, but they replied, "No way, you’re crazy, we’re going as voluntary workers to cut wood for a while, 5-6 days, then they will let us go," nobody listened to him, but he escaped, and so did my brother. However, they issued an order: anyone who does not report within 24 hours and is caught after 24 hours will be shot; that was the order, it was written.

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At the municipality, a poster was displayed, a drummer came and announced it to the people. What the people gathered, they took away, but they knew there were still some left, and this order applied to them to report within 24 hours, and those who did not report would be shot. Those who remained reported, and so did my brother, and they were taken to the camp. My brother's name was Laza Kostić. There were about ten of them who were hiding, and they said - when they reported, let’s all report, only the smartest one, this uncle Žika Dekić, said - I won’t let myself be caught by them, I don’t trust them, and so he stayed behind; five of his sons were taken, and they were all adults, of legal age. After a month or two, they came again, blocked the area, and rounded up the women, blocking the village for the second time. I was still with the villagers, tending sheep; the owner was named Stevan Nikolić, there were two brothers, it was a cooperative, Stevan Nikolić and Boža Nikolić, and I tended their livestock. When I brought the livestock home in the evening, the owner’s wife told me through tears - they took your mother Jula, two sisters, and your brother. The oldest sister was named Gospava, the younger one Desa, the youngest brother Toma, and mother Jula. I started to cry, where will I go now, my brother shot, my mother taken away, where will I go, what will I do.

An order came that no one was allowed to hide Gypsies in their village; anyone caught hiding Gypsies would be shot, and no one dared to take us in, nor could they keep me, even though I had been in the fields all day, but they were afraid someone would report them. My mother, when they were rounded up, had to pass by my owner’s street, and she told the gendarme - can I stop by here to tell my wife something, to watch over something, and the gendarme allowed her.

She came into the yard, Serbs were coming out into the street, it was terrifying for them, this had never happened before, they had taken people, now even women to kill them. My mother left with aunt Cica

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two thousand dinars in silver coins to give me. When I came in the evening, they started talking to me, I was crying, come have dinner, When I have eaten the dinner, she prepared a little bag with food for me and gave me the money that my mother left. Uncle Žika's son Pera also served with another brother, with Andreja Nikolić, Steva and Boža were one community, while Pera served with his uncle. Pera came and we talked over the fence about the situation, but Uncle Žika was also informed in time by that man, who told him — Uncle Žika, get lost to wherever you know, gather your family and run. In the meantime, when he was taken away with the men and after 4-5 days he returned and continued to live in the village with his family. When he heard they would take the women and children, he gathered his family and fled during the night. Pera was informed that he was at Uncle Žika's brother-in-law, who worked in the municipality and who kept Uncle Žika informed about everything; his house was at the end of the village. Uncle Žika's son told me - Stevo, let's go up to Blaga, my father is there, and let's run at night, so we don't find ourselves nearby. I went up with him, Uncle Žika was in the barn, dead silence, darkness, at that time there was no electricity. We gathered there, his sister was there, the grandchildren were there, Maja, Uncle Žika's wife, then one sister, then another. Overnight we went through Leštane, we knew that terrain, and Uncle Žika planned to go to some family in the village of Dražanj near Mali Požarevac, and that’s where we settled. Overnight we traveled through Leštane, Ivanča, we stayed overnight in Ivanča with some Roma. No one bothered the Roma in Ivanča, and in Leštane, the Roma were also not bothered; there was a good president. Our president of Mirijevo was an unlucky man, he harassed the Roma and he didn’t interpret things well. They were looking for the Roma based on that act, but they were looking for the Roma, the "chergari" who were constantly on the move and didn’t have a permanent residence; we had lived there for years, but he...

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He hated the Gypsies and took the opportunity to get revenge. The president of the municipality was named Sreten Nikolić, nicknamed "Prasetovina," from Mirijevo. We spent the night in Ivanča and set off for Dražanj early in the morning. In Dražanj, I had a half-brother on my father's side who took me in. The Chetniks were mostly in charge there, with only a few partisans around. Unfortunately for me, instead of being at home, my brother had some club and said to me - let's go, Stevo, and prepare firewood for the winter, and off we went. My aunt also fled to Begaljica, and she heard about me being in Dražanj. She heard that gas could be bought in Dražanj, so she came to buy it and to take me back to Begaljica. There were also Gypsies in Begaljica, but no one bothered or chased them away, yet I wasn't there, and so I stayed. Early in the morning, the police guard came with a Chetnik, and they knew exactly where everyone was; someone had reported us. It seemed that it was all set up; there was a Gypsy, a pig trader, who knew Uncle Žika because he was a horse trader, so they were acquainted. This pig trader thought that Uncle Žika had a lot of money, so he said to him - you know what, Uncle Žika, if we went to Grocka, where there was a district court for questioning, they would let you go, and if you have money on you, so they wouldn't take it, leave it with me, and when they release you, I'll give it back to you. Uncle Žika replied - your mother, that's all your fault, it's better if they take it, but you won't. So they rounded us up and took us to the Grocka by foot at night. I could have escaped, but I was naive. There were four adult men, women, and children; they rounded us all up, and there were about 20 of us in total. When we arrived in Grocka, they threw us into prison, where there were also Chetniks, and some had been shot for some punishment; I don't know what they had done. We were in prison.

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About ten days. It was in October. I, Pera, and Uncle Žika went, the jailer let us go, to buy some food. The money I received from my mother was with me; they didn’t search us when we arrived at the prison. The jailer told us - don’t listen to anyone telling you to escape, you will be released to go home just to be questioned, and I found out what I had to say. After that, we saw that the Germans came bringing bread, one loaf for each person, and they took us to the boat, to the dock in Grocka for Belgrade. They didn’t question us in prison, nor did they take our information, nothing. From the prison, they informed the German command that there was a group of people to be transported, and they were waiting for the opportunity to pass us through. When we arrived at the dock, the boat was waiting, and only then did I realize what we had done. When we arrived by boat at the Sava dock, the women and children were separated to one side, and the four of us - me, Pera, Uncle Žika, and his nephew Dobrivoje, were met by a German bus and taken to the Autokomanda.

Milena Radojčić - in which part was this?

Kostić Stevan - in Kumodraška Street, that building still exists, it was a stable. That’s where we were first taken in.

Milan Koljanin - who did you find there?

Kostić Stevan - there were Jews, the barracks were set back inside, there was a wall made of bricks and above it was barbed wire, and there was a German guard there. They didn’t take our information there.

Milan Koljanin - who received you?

Kostić Stevan - the Germans, the camp commander was our fellow from Belgrade, a German, I don’t remember his name, but he was a carpenter, and he had a shop at Franša Deperea, and he registered as a German. - His name was Hraos.

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In that horse stable, I learned after 5-6 days, while I was getting to know the Jews, and they told me that there had been Gypsies there, musicians, all sorts of people, and Hraos had picked them up; the snow had already caught them, and it had caught me too. We were caught there by the German Christmas. The Jews told me that they went to work at Sajmište to cut wood; the Jews, women, and children were at Sajmište, while the men were at Autokomanda. In the morning, they were taken to Sajmište to work, and in the evening, they were brought back. That’s how I found out from one man that my mother and sister were there.

You have nothing, you only see straw, luckily Uncle Žika had a peasant’s blanket that he had brought with him.

Milan Koljanin - how many Gypsies did you find when you arrived?

Kostić Stevan - there was no one when we arrived; everything was empty, they had already been deported.

There were large tables made of military wood, so we made a kind of hut, and inside we stuffed straw, leaving just enough of an opening to get in. Then we tied the straw into a bale, and when we entered, we pulled that bale in and closed the entrance, so it was warm inside. The German was walking around the hall, shooting at the light bulbs; it was cheerful because of Christmas, they were letting off steam. The next day, they ordered us to remove all the beams that were in the stable with the horses - the stalls - to take those posts and carry them to the guardhouse, where the guard shift would light a fire. They were enemies, but they were much nicer to us, far from being polite, but they were human; they didn’t mistreat us like they did the Jews; they were treated much worse.

Milan Koljanin - how many Jews were there?

Kostić Stevan - I don’t know, a large number.

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Milena Radojčić - were the Jews in that same stable?

Kostić Stevan - no, they were in a separate building, and in the stable, it was just the four of us; we had no connection with the Jews, we were just in the same circle, we were together when we went outside and when we had lunch.

One time, we were taking out those pillars, scraping, carrying, and Hraos was satisfied with that, so he moved us under the kitchen, where there was a small attic. Down there was straw, we spread a rug, it was warm, they were heating up above. There was a little window that looked directly into the yard. I hear at night, in the moonlight, everything is white, Hraos is shouting, there’s a commotion, a dog is barking, when he drove all the Jews outside barefoot, only in pajamas, he took them by the arms and drove them all in circles while a shepherd dog was running after them, tearing at those who fell; there were older people there, they couldn’t run, the younger ones were fleeing. They ran about 5-6 laps and then went to sleep; there were only men there, the women were at the fairgrounds.

One day, Hraos came, and he was also checking on us; one of us was always on duty, someone always had to be awake so that when he showed up for inspection, you could report how many were sleeping, you turned on the light, the light was not allowed to be on, only when he came by did you turn on the light and report to him. The next day, he went up to the kitchen and took Uncle Žika with him, he went to the boss and told him - these people, there are four of them, they speak Serbian, you will let them eat as much as they want of the leftovers, the food was quite good, and there was a canteen in the yard, so you could buy whatever you wanted; anyone who had money could buy there.

Milan Koljanin - could the Jews also buy in that canteen?

Kostić Stevan - of course, they were the ones running it, their man - a Jew. There were meat products, sausages,

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Salami, bread, everything that was needed for food, and those who had money could buy anything, and that’s where I spent my money. The food was good; there was bean soup, potatoes, mixed pasta, the food was ideal, we all had the same meals, all three meals, both us and the Jews, with the exception that we had the right to seconds. The head of the kitchen was a Jew, and he told us that whenever we wanted seconds, we should ask him; sometimes we had enough food, sometimes we didn’t. The Jews ran the kitchen and they did the cooking; it was all their organization, except they didn’t have freedom, they were being mistreated.

One Jew told me that there were Gypsies there, where we were in that hall. One day, Hraus picked them up, and whatever musical instruments anyone had, they had to play, whatever they knew. They were having their fun, laughing, and then Hraus came, took an instrument, and hit someone on the head; whatever instruments anyone had were broken over their heads. During the night, trucks came, picked them all up, and they disappeared. There were quite a few of them; it wasn’t just musicians, there were people from other professions, they were from Mirijevo, from Višnjica, the whole Jatagan Mala, then Marinkova Bara, Belgrade and the surrounding areas, not all the villages around Belgrade, just those that were reported, where there was a bad mayor, everything depended on him. The mayor from Višnjica was bad, Mirijevo's people. There were no Gypsies from from Mali and Veliki Mokri Lug, they picked them up from Resnik, Žarkovo was also picked up, women, men, and that was it. They had been executed there about a month before our arrival, somewhere in October, my brother was there too. I accidentally found my brother’s registration in that straw - Lazar Kostić, I found his registration and his shoe, I remember, he walked a bit crooked, so I recognized his shoe.

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Čika Žika's godfather made a request through the municipality for him to be released, along with his son Pera and his nephew Dobrivoje. One day he received it; it went through the municipality, then through the district, and from there to the Ministry of Nedić, which was responsible for such matters. The request arrived at the camp command to release this and that person by name, son, nephew, etc.

Milena Radojčić - tell me, what is this confirmation, is it that you are long-time residents?

Kostić Stevan - no, it was simply a permit stating that he is a free citizen; if someone encounters you, you show the confirmation that you are free, there is no danger of arrest, it was essentially an ausweis.

Milan Koljanin - when were those three released?

Kostić Stevan - after a month or two, somewhere in January 1942, during the winter period when they were released, so I stayed alone for 1-2 days, and then the whole camp was transported with the Jews; there were many Jews.

Milena Radojčić - how were you transported?

Kostić Stevan - we were transported by trucks all the way to the Sava, to the bridge. The Sava was frozen, so they threw bales of straw about 4 meters wide; it was like a kind of scaffold, and we walked over that. Pavilion number V was empty, and that’s where they accommodated us. We crossed over the frozen Sava and entered through the main gate, which was guarded by Ustaše. The camp was surrounded by high double wire fencing; there were no guards around, only at the main entrance, which was also the exit; no one was allowed to appear anywhere else. The people were exhausted; they could hardly move or accomplish anything. There were about 500-600 Jews in the camp, and I was the only Romani among them. Through one Jew, I learned that my mother and sisters were there, so I informed him that we would come to Sajmište; the Jews knew that.

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We wanted to go over to Sajmište. A part of the Jews went to clean the pavilion, to prepare for the relocation from Auto-command to Sajmište. They were making bunk beds, Jewish craftsmen. Since I was alone among the Jews, I asked my camp commander—a Jew, everything had to go through him, I don’t remember his name, he was a middle-aged man, always in contact with the Germans, overseeing things; he was a collaborator on all matters with the Germans. He was already at Sajmište when we arrived from Auto-command; he was not from our group.

There were many more of them at Sajmište than at Auto-command—children and women; there were no men. Our pavilion was inside the camp, fenced with wire, and a guard was posted. The distance between the men’s and women’s pavilions was about 20 meters. The kitchen was in the center of the camp. Women and children were in pavilions No. I, II, III, and we were in pavilion No. V.

I asked the Jewish camp commander, since my mother and sisters were there, to transfer me to be with them because I was alone among the Jews. He asked me who was there, and I told him by name; I provided all the information, he checked, accepted it, asked the German camp commander, who was also named Hraus, the other Hraus, so the Jew transferred me to pavilion No. II, which was full of children and older women. In that pavilion, there were also bunk beds, and there were two large brick stoves like rooms, where whole logs were thrown in; supposedly we were heating, but we all froze.

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Milena Radojčić - Were you heated like that in the pavilion with the Jews?

Kostić Stevan - I didn’t even spend the night with the Jews; already during the day, I arranged everything and was transferred to pavilion No. II.

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Milan Koljanin - when was that?

Kostic Stevan - that was in January.

When I arrived, my mother and sisters were not just full of lice; there wasn't a piece of fabric that was without lice. We at the Autokomanda didn't have lice; there was steaming for lice. When I got there, the camp chief, a Jew, appointed me to be the hygiene supervisor and to keep an eye on the kitchen, to control what was being prepared, and to maintain hygiene in Pavilion No. II, the Gypsy pavilion. We had a nurse in our pavilion, a Jewish woman named Matilda. I didn't sleep with my mother at all; instead, I slept on a table at the clinic, which had a special section for the clinic, with boxes, and there were also some storage areas. For us, the storage was in the same pavilion; they brought food there, and I prepared it. They brought food from the central kitchen to that section; they would line up, receive a piece of cornbread, and food was distributed from large buckets. I shared the food distribution with another guy named Mija, who was from Resnik. I replaced him because he was sick; I was healthier, constantly moving around. I had to determine who would work, those who were healthier, who could get up; there were stroke victims, immobile people, wetting themselves, and we had to maintain hygiene. This Jewish nurse was with me, and I appointed orderlies from those who were mobile. There was one young man and some stronger women; I ordered that if someone died, they should be wrapped in a blanket, taken out to the lime pit, and thrown in. The lime pit was toward Sava, outside the fence, there was a gate so we wouldn't have to go around; there was no guard there, and we carried the dead out through that gate and threw them into the lime pit. No one was near that lime pit. One of the prisoners was responsible for covering the dead with lime; the lime pit was enormous.

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During the day, at night, the children die, women by 5-6, sometimes one, two, sometimes ten. In the morning you hear them wailing, a family member, then they report it, the sister comes, confirms the death and then it is carried away.

Milena Radojčić - did the camp commander, the German, come to visit your pavilion?

Kostić Stevan - he came every Wednesday, because that's when the requests came, he only came then, they didn't call us out. On Wednesdays I would order everyone to come down, the camp commander would tell me, and I knew myself, we knew the time when those requests came and were read, everyone had to stand up and form the letter "P". All this happened in that Gypsy pavilion, that's where the camp commander, the German, would come, then his Jewish assistant, the interpreter, and this interpreter would read the requests, for example - Janković Mirjana with her daughter so-and-so, with her son so-and-so, so many years old, he would read all the details, and she would immediately step forward, she would say - that's me, this lucky one, they would wail with joy. Some Wednesdays there would be 5-6 requests, 10, those requests would accumulate, they didn't read them individually, in Nedić's government they would collect those requests and then send them to the camp, 10-15, 20, however many. I then had to prepare everything, make the place quiet, still, when he entered, the dog was with him, he didn't have an escort, only the commander and the Jewish interpreter, he would stand, read, he always wore dark glasses, carried a cane, the dog was next to him, he wore an officer's uniform, he was a Gestapo policeman.

I was with the nurse-sister all day long, I went around the kitchen, prepared, only lunch was served, there was no breakfast or dinner, only one meal and it was distributed between 12 and 13 o'clock. The Jews brought the food to our door, the door was always open, you could walk around freely. Our pavilion was not fenced off, only the men's pavilion, pavilion no. V, where the Jews were, only that one was fenced off within the camp, but this one was free, you could go all the way to the central kitchen.

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Yes, but we were not allowed to go to the men's Jewish camp. The Jewish women would walk around, pushing their children in strollers, as they were housed in the other pavilions - there were quite a few of them. They were well-dressed ladies, wearing pants, yellow boots, leather jackets, and their children were well-cared for. Their kitchen was separate from ours, and they received powdered milk.

I don't recall there being any infirmary for the sick.

Milena Radojčić - The toilets were either in the pavilion or outside.

Kostić Stevan - Outside the pavilion, towards the fence, xxxx behind the 2nd pavilion. Each pavilion had its own toilet. I don't remember if we had drinking water inside. We were not locked in at night, and there were no guards - it wasn't necessary, as the women were incapable of attempting anything, they were all living corpses. The only one who looked a bit younger was me, as I was well-fed as the kitchen supervisor.

On one occasion, half of them had left, and I became demoralized, leaving them all and refusing to listen. I went out to the kitchen. There, my older sister - that one who reads - Kostić Jula with her daughter Gospava and son Stevan, her son Tomislav, were reading all the information. The mother was a lost, simple peasant woman, and the sister was pushing the mother, telling her - "Well, we've been called, and we'll be freed too." In her confusion, she ran towards the kitchen and called me, saying - "Stevo, hurry, we've received our petition!" And I, overjoyed, ran quickly, but accidentally ran into a poor Jewish woman carrying a can of milk to warm for her child.

-15-

I glanced the woman and knocked over her milk. When I arrived, we were happy, crying with joy, and this Jewish woman approached - Stevo, lucky you, you’re going out to freedom, she started to cry, sister-nurse Matilda.

Milan Koljanin - do you remember when that was?

Kostić Stevan - it was sometime in March.

Milena Radojčić - did you see Dekić there?

Kostić Stevan - no, I didn’t see him, he left earlier, he was with his grandmother, and I wonder how he survived, his fingers were frostbitten and he was all covered in lice, he was just a corpse of a person.

We got our passes and in the evening we set off across the ice, there were a few of us, another woman had been released, and we arrived home in the evening. My daughter-in-law made a request for me, the wife of my oldest brother, she had a baby, and luckily in the misfortune, when they were buying women at that time, one gendarme took pity on that child and her, and we had wooden shutters on our house, and he told her - you young lady stay inside, and I will lock up, put on a padlock, and I will leave the key here for you. And so she saved our lives, mine, my mother’s, my brothers’ and sister’s, that daughter-in-law made a request for us.

When we got home, the daughter-in-law didn’t even expect us, that guy who was in the municipality, the chief, always lied, he wrote requests, and he was a thief, taking money, today this, tomorrow that, but still, she saved us. The daughter-in-law immediately put water to boil, threw the clothes on the snow, we bathed, she gave us what she had for us to wear, and we lay down in bed. And so it all ended happily, after all.

- 16 -

Milena Radojčić - So, you left the camp around March 1942?

Kostić Stevan - Yes, in March 1942.

Milan Koljanin - How many people remained behind?

Kostić Stevan - I don't know how many were left behind. There was a Gypsy woman from Mirijevo, she was the only one left, there was no one to write for her. She remained with her sister-in-law or daughter-in-law, I know two women and two children from Mirijevo stayed, no one made a request for them, and later I heard that the gas chamber was used for Gypsies, because they were the real Gypsies, those wanderers, as there was no one to take care of them, and they were executed. In 1942, it was said that the Gypsies who remained in the camp were destroyed in the gas chamber, because no one was looking after them.

Milan Koljanin - These were people from Mirijevo, but how many other Gypsies remained in the camp?

Kostić Stevan - Not many, around a hundred. I was released in the penultimate group, so I think only a small number remained.

Milena Radojčić - Of those who were with you at Sajmište, do you know anyone who is still alive today? Can you tell us their names and where they are?

Kostić Stevan - Pera Dekić, he is alive, he lives in Mirijevo.

Milena Radojčić - Are your sisters alive?

Kostić Stevan - Yes, Gospava and Desanka, they are in Šabac.

Milena Radojčić - Do you have anyone else alive?

Kostić Stevan - I have a brother, he is younger than me, he is here.

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I can talk to him, he was a living corpse when I arrived in that pavilion, I don't believe he remembers anything, he was a child, he wasn't moving, he just lay there and cried for bread.

I don't remember anyone else, those I knew have died.

Milena Radojčić -- How did you continue your life, since you were later arrested at Banjica, what were you doing in the village until Banjica, did they bother you?

Kostić Stevan - They didn't bother me.

Milan Koljanin - What happened to the municipality president?

Kostić Stevan - He remained alive, he was the municipality president until liberation. He didn't harass me when I returned, he apologized, he was hiding, somewhat hesitant, he was uncomfortable. After the war, no one prosecuted him, there was no one to pursue it and who could prove it was his initiative. He acted according to that document, he was a peasant, he didn't understand that document, he didn't interpret who those Gypsies were. Those Gypsies were locals, they had their own land, house, they were craftsmen, traders, farmers, they worked for peasants, they worked honestly and lived honestly.

Milena Radojčić -- What did you do when you left the camp?

Kostić Stevan - I continued working for peasants.

Milena Radojčić - Tell me how it happened that you were arrested and taken to Banjica?

Kostić Stevan - After Italy's capitulation, in 1943, around that time, there was a crisis for firewood. At Ada near Veliko Selo, across from Pančevo, we were cutting wood, preparing fuel for the winter. It was autumn, warm weather, and one Chetnik got drunk,

-18-

fired a rifle and a stray bullet hit the cabin of a boat on the Danube. The boat captain informed the Gestapo, the Gestapo blocked the entire Ada overnight, and I was there guarding the wood, my wife had gone in the evening to come back the next day with a peasant to transport the wood, half for him, half for her. I thought I was guarding the wood, because if no one guards it, speculators would come overnight, take the wood and sell it. I was guarding the wood, I had an axe with me, I lit a fire, all those guarding wood gathered around the fire, and slept there. In the morning, someone was bothering me - los, los, I thought I was dreaming, however, when he hit me a bit harder with his boot, I opened my eyes, it was moonlight, and I saw a German in front of me shouting for me to get up. When I got up, I saw lots of soldiers - Gestapo, they gathered everyone, formed a column and we headed towards Bela Stena, towards Višnjica, trucks couldn't go further than Bela Stena. They lined us up with our tools, some had saws, axes, there were about 30-40 people, these were people from nearby villages, Višnjica, Mali Mokri Lug, Mirijevo. We came to Bela Stena, they stuffed us in trucks and took us to the old central building, there was a fenced-off warehouse and they pushed us into their bunkers which were empty and had two floors. They waited for evening to fall, then lined us up in a column and we walked to Banjica, we went through Terazije, Germans were riding bicycles on the sides, passersby were asking who we were, where we were from, they thought we were partisans, and everyone was carrying their own tools. When we arrived at Banjica, a large table was prepared, 2-3 record keepers, they spoke Serbian, we came in order, they took our information, from there we went to the bathroom, we threw our clothes for delousing because of lice, there were no lice, we bathed, got haircuts, and when we finished all that, then they transferred us, there were also Italians there. They placed us in a barrack that was all covered with tar, the barrack was in the camp yard, a wooden barrack, each was separately for-

- 19 -

constructed with wires and you couldn't sleep there, everyone squatted next to the wall. We were there 5-6 days, and they kept coming. There was an Italian who came with the Germans for inspection and spoke with them. The son of the Višnjica municipality president intervened, they thought we were partisans and fortunately found the Chetnik who fired and precisely determined that the bullet that hit the boat's cabin came from that weapon. They found him in the village. Then they established that we weren't partisans, everyone provided their information, it was verified, they saw we were working on cutting wood, and they found who fired the shot. After that, they released us in the evening, we received an aus-weis [exit permit] and I walked home through Voždovac in the evening. The shutters on the house were closed, I was knocking, they thought I would never return, because Banjica was dangerous, whoever ended up in the Banjica camp had no hope of escape.

Milena Radojčić - Did you join the partisans afterwards?

Kostić Stevan - No, I was mobilized after the liberation. In September 1943, I went into the army. I was in KNOJ [People's Liberation Youth Corps] for two years here in Belgrade, it was the 1st Belgrade KNOJ brigade, KNOJ was established in 1944. There was a school on Moše Pijade Street, we were there for 6 months, the entire Belgrade district was there, the Corps was established, some went to the front, some remained in KNOJ. I was in Belgrade the entire time.

Signature: Kostić Stevan

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STEVAN-KOSTIC-testimony-s

Testimony of Stevan Kostić, given to the historian Milena Radojčić in 1986, in the framework of her research on the camp at Sajmište. The archival signature of the testimony was published in "The Geraman camp at the Belgrade Fair (Sajmište) 1941-1944, Mr Milan Koljanin, Edition 2Suffering and Resistance", Book 7th, Institute for Contemporary History, Belgrade 1992.

PDF file, download at the bottom of the frame. The testimony is kept in the Historical Archive of Belgrade (IAB) on tape, and as transcript published here. Sig: IAB 4807/MG-913.

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Memory of Stevan Kostić, IAB 4807/МГ-913

Testimony of Stevan Kostić, transcript